Just turned 3 toddler has been saying factually untrue things and trying to get me to agree/repeat these things. They won’t let me just ignore their statements and push for an affirmation. Not affirming leads to tears and a tantrum. I’ve been just saying ‘ok’ or ‘I think you’re wrong but ok’ but mostly letting things go if they seem trivial like: ‘Ice cream is not cold!’, ‘It’s not dark yet!’, ‘Snow isn’t white’, etc… I’ve been mostly targetting statements they make about other people and their feelings or desires like ‘You’re not tired!’, ‘She doesn’t want to sing.’, ‘He’s not hungry.’, etc… and letting the meltdowns happen in those situations but my spouse is concerned that I’m making toddler believe they can have their own facts outside of reality and that I should push back every time something factually inaccurate comes up. I feel like this behavior is probably developmentally normal and like everything else, we need to target specific things to work on one at a time. Thoughts?
I’m not a parent but a teacher who has encountered similar things with students. This won’t work in all the situations you described but you can try giving them affirmation by telling them they are very creative for coming up with cool ideas or stories. This can provide positive attention without conceding the point.
Also for some things like ice cream not being cold, you get explore the idea with them. Cold is, in fact, not a thing, it is just a lack of heat.
Lots of good answers here, but I have a slightly different interpretation. This may be something that catches some flack, but reserve judgement until I am done. Maybe your kid is actually a genius. Like a bonified genius, no sarcasm. He sounds a lot like I did when I was his age and it turned out that I am actually somewhere in the top 0.03% of the population. This is not a brag, having this means I have a lot of unique mental health and social issues I have to deal with.
What leads me to the thought are the specific examples he gave. Fundamentally, all of the observations are 100% true.
Snow isn’t white. Snow is clear, but the way light reflects internally when you stack it up causes nearly 100% of white light to be reflected, which is what makes it look white.
Ice cream is not cold, as cold is merely a word that describes an absence of heat. The concept of cold is 100% subjective and reliant on a comparison. In essence, you are having a problem with your child’s opinion, which you complained about him having issues with yours. Until you get down below about 30°K, you can’t really say something is objectively cold, as that os where the laws of physics start changing (condensed matter, superconductivity, etc.).
“It’s not dark yet.” this one is fun on two sides. First, there is a scientifically proven link between what we are taught as a concept of a word and how our brain actually interprets sensory data related to that word. There are societies who do not have words for particular colors, and when tested to identify a differently colored box amongst several boxes with a close hue, they are functionally incapable of discerning the difference. After being taught words to describe the colors and shown examples, they saw a marked improvement in identification. What this can functionally mean is that what you actually perceive as a light level that relates to “being dark” can affect how much of the light that enters your eyes is interpreted as “dark”. Your child does not have this limitation, so his threshold may be much lower than yours. This leads to the second interesting point, it is nearly impossible to create a space that can be occupied that is actually devoid of photons bouncing around. This fact, coupled with your child’s higher sensitivity to light, means that for them, it is actually not dark yet. You are seeing the world through an adult’s lens which says “it is night, so it is dark” instead of the child’s lens that says “dark means there isn’t light, I see light, so it is not dark.”
Even the issues they have with what is known as “sense of other” is an indication. Many geniuses struggle with the concept that other people do not share an identical physical, emotional, or mental condition with themselves. When he says “You’re not hungry” he is really saying “I’m not hungry, so that means you must not be either.” If they are a genius and has that affect, then this will be an uphill battle. Patience and getting them to understand that other people have their own separate thoughts and identities that are vastly different to the point of being incomparable will feel very surreal. It will also have the knock-on effect of making it very hard to directly relate to neurotypical people. My wife and I struggle constantly because I have such a different view of the world than anyone she has ever known.
The minimum age to be tested by Mensa is 4, so it might be worth reaching out to your local chapter and inquiring.
This is not a brag, having this means I have a lot of unique mental health and social issues I have to deal with
A. there is no other reason for you to bring it up and B. you’d think that someone that went through that themselves would at least have some insight in to the relationship between being “diagnosed” as “genius” at a young age and mental health issues, and recommend a parent keep their child as far away from that toxicity as possible, not have them assessed for fucking mensa (which is nothing but a hollow ego boost to those vain enough to join) at 3.
Never mind that this parent is describing textbook developmental milestones, but these tests you’ve probably been clinging to all your life are debunked pseudoscience at best and harmful eugenicist bullshit at worst.
But more seriously, have you tried exploration? “What makes you think that?” “why do you think that?” Etc.
Toddlers are notorious for playing the ‘why?’ game, but I used to have fun turning it back on them. It can lead to some quite interesting conversations if you are in the mood, not exhausted etc. Worth trying?
Not a parent, but personally I would also err on the side of correcting them, as they’re still heavily exploring the world. Partially, they’re figuring out the world by making statements they believe to be wrong and do actually want you to confirm that they’re wrong.
But yeah, if they’re throwing a tantrum, they may rather be looking for more input than that. More attention or a playfight of wits even, so to speak.
Asking them “why?” as many others suggested, seems like a good start here.
Personally, I would also try just feeding them tons of information, like if they say that snow isn’t white, tell them that it is, because it reflects all the wavelengths of light. Obviously, they won’t understand what that actually means, but it gives them something to think about and in the sense of the playfight, they’ll be satisfied, too (i.e. defeated and learned something).
It’s a natural stage of development. Playing with the idea of reality is part of understanding and accepting the world around them. Let them play in the world of make believe while asking them about what they’re experiencing and help them form understanding. *Pointing to blue item “This is orange.” “That’s orange? What else is orange?” If they demand you agree with them, it should be fine. This is early development. It’s way, way more important that they feel safe and loved than what they’re thinking and saying. They will grow and if they seem to be too distant from reality, there’s plenty more things you can do to help them at that stage.
I’m with your husband. Your cold is trying to figure out where the boundaries here are. Unless you want to create a serial liar, the only reasonable answer is that you don’t tolerate lies. You don’t have to argue, you don’t have to get the kid to agree, but correcting them is reasonable and probably the right move, even if you do it in a sort of casually dismissive way.
OP - this is perfectly normal, if not actively positive behaviour for their age. Your child is hitting a milestone and I am positive there is significant bulk of already established literature on how best to deal with this phase out there that would give you much better insight and advice than a bunch of randoms on the internet…
Me: really? And all this time I was wrong? Now I see it, it’s pink! Unicorn and rainbow pink! And grass is also pink! And water too! Everything is pink!
Just have some good laughs.
Feelings of others is more difficult and you need to be delicate to teach them respect and empathy.
But doing it in a forceful manner often has the opposite effect.
Yes, what’s important is modeling behavior, not an accurate world view at 3. It’s frustrating internally, but I just made sure my child could see that I was unfazed. I also modeled answering questions without being an authority, when appropriate “I think this is how it is” “I’m not sure, let’s find out together!”
It’s a long process, just keep your eye on emotional regulation and other bigger picture issues and don’t let your child drag you into the weeds of who is right and who is wrong, IMO.
My child does this too sometimes, it’s sometimes a form of testing their own power over the world and sometimes odd humour .
If it’s obviously a deliberately false statement I tend to dismiss them with some form of “Don’t be silly” or “Poppycock”. Not arguing, but dismissing something as silly can be more effective.
my kid used to deny my own personal opinions, it almost always pissed me off at first. I felt like I was giving so much and I didn’t want to give up my opinions too, simple things like me saying that I like something could provoke him to argue that I don’t. My spouse helped a lot, we made it into a family joke like he’s a little dictator, maybe he picked up on the laughing and learned that it was inappropriate behavior.
It’s fine. I wouldn’t just ignore it though. Maybe question why they think these things. ‘What makes you sure he’s not hungry? Did you ask him?’, ‘Are you sure she didn’t want to sing? I think she has a pretty voice.’
Your toddler is coughing e their desires more than denying facts. If anything, it’s an expression of imagination and should be encouraged with guidance away from just telling outright lies.
I work in Early Childhood Education, your kids fine. They’re just playing as they explore and learn. Your husbands approach just dismisses their voice and doesn’t achieve anything constructive.
If they’re still acting like this by 5ish I might start to be a little concerned, but honestly I’d expect they’ll get bored of it in a month or two.
The tantrums are also a pretty standard response as they’re learning emotional regulation, alongside trying to be independent while learning more things at any other stage of life. Its chaotic, all you can to is be there to role models and guide them through understanding what they’re feeling and ways they can control their state.
If you really don’t want to play along, the best method is re-direction. I like to ask confusing questions, e.g. “the snow isn’t white” “Oh what colour is the snow? Is it red, I like red because I like red apples. What’s your favourite fruit?” Or you could just point to say a dog walking outside the window etc. just something to get them thinking about a different topic.
Great answer! And from someone who’s in the relevant field. Hopefully Lemmy keeps getting more varieties of people from different fields so we get people like you =) It’s the one thing I miss about Reddit.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !parenting@lemmy.world
Is his name Donald, by any chance?
Americans try not to make any topic about US politics challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Scottish person trying no to tell you tae pu yer foreskin oer yer heid challenge (AWAY AN SHITE, BAWBAG)
I’m not a parent but a teacher who has encountered similar things with students. This won’t work in all the situations you described but you can try giving them affirmation by telling them they are very creative for coming up with cool ideas or stories. This can provide positive attention without conceding the point.
Also for some things like ice cream not being cold, you get explore the idea with them. Cold is, in fact, not a thing, it is just a lack of heat.
Lots of good answers here, but I have a slightly different interpretation. This may be something that catches some flack, but reserve judgement until I am done. Maybe your kid is actually a genius. Like a bonified genius, no sarcasm. He sounds a lot like I did when I was his age and it turned out that I am actually somewhere in the top 0.03% of the population. This is not a brag, having this means I have a lot of unique mental health and social issues I have to deal with.
What leads me to the thought are the specific examples he gave. Fundamentally, all of the observations are 100% true.
Even the issues they have with what is known as “sense of other” is an indication. Many geniuses struggle with the concept that other people do not share an identical physical, emotional, or mental condition with themselves. When he says “You’re not hungry” he is really saying “I’m not hungry, so that means you must not be either.” If they are a genius and has that affect, then this will be an uphill battle. Patience and getting them to understand that other people have their own separate thoughts and identities that are vastly different to the point of being incomparable will feel very surreal. It will also have the knock-on effect of making it very hard to directly relate to neurotypical people. My wife and I struggle constantly because I have such a different view of the world than anyone she has ever known.
The minimum age to be tested by Mensa is 4, so it might be worth reaching out to your local chapter and inquiring.
A. there is no other reason for you to bring it up and B. you’d think that someone that went through that themselves would at least have some insight in to the relationship between being “diagnosed” as “genius” at a young age and mental health issues, and recommend a parent keep their child as far away from that toxicity as possible, not have them assessed for fucking mensa (which is nothing but a hollow ego boost to those vain enough to join) at 3.
Never mind that this parent is describing textbook developmental milestones, but these tests you’ve probably been clinging to all your life are debunked pseudoscience at best and harmful eugenicist bullshit at worst.
Vote for the other guy.
But more seriously, have you tried exploration? “What makes you think that?” “why do you think that?” Etc.
Toddlers are notorious for playing the ‘why?’ game, but I used to have fun turning it back on them. It can lead to some quite interesting conversations if you are in the mood, not exhausted etc. Worth trying?
They do not know how to respond to why questions and just end up repeating their statement.
deleted by creator
Not a parent, but personally I would also err on the side of correcting them, as they’re still heavily exploring the world. Partially, they’re figuring out the world by making statements they believe to be wrong and do actually want you to confirm that they’re wrong.
But yeah, if they’re throwing a tantrum, they may rather be looking for more input than that. More attention or a playfight of wits even, so to speak.
Asking them “why?” as many others suggested, seems like a good start here.
Personally, I would also try just feeding them tons of information, like if they say that snow isn’t white, tell them that it is, because it reflects all the wavelengths of light. Obviously, they won’t understand what that actually means, but it gives them something to think about and in the sense of the playfight, they’ll be satisfied, too (i.e. defeated and learned something).
It’s a natural stage of development. Playing with the idea of reality is part of understanding and accepting the world around them. Let them play in the world of make believe while asking them about what they’re experiencing and help them form understanding. *Pointing to blue item “This is orange.” “That’s orange? What else is orange?” If they demand you agree with them, it should be fine. This is early development. It’s way, way more important that they feel safe and loved than what they’re thinking and saying. They will grow and if they seem to be too distant from reality, there’s plenty more things you can do to help them at that stage.
I’m with your husband. Your cold is trying to figure out where the boundaries here are. Unless you want to create a serial liar, the only reasonable answer is that you don’t tolerate lies. You don’t have to argue, you don’t have to get the kid to agree, but correcting them is reasonable and probably the right move, even if you do it in a sort of casually dismissive way.
The child just turned 3, jfc…
OP - this is perfectly normal, if not actively positive behaviour for their age. Your child is hitting a milestone and I am positive there is significant bulk of already established literature on how best to deal with this phase out there that would give you much better insight and advice than a bunch of randoms on the internet…
No, the child is lost
OP: I have failed you, Child. I have failed you.
Child: I should have known the ice cream was plotting to be not cold.
OP: Child, ice cream is cold!
Child: From my point of view, the ice cream is not cold!
OP: Well, then you are lost!
Child: This is the end for you, my master.
Might as well throw them out and start with a new one.
I would always agree and amplify.
Toddler: Snow isn’t white
Me: really? And all this time I was wrong? Now I see it, it’s pink! Unicorn and rainbow pink! And grass is also pink! And water too! Everything is pink!
Just have some good laughs.
Feelings of others is more difficult and you need to be delicate to teach them respect and empathy.
But doing it in a forceful manner often has the opposite effect.
The problem with direct pushing back is that
This is also great because you’re still making it clear that their “fact” was wrong, so you’re not reenforcing that their statements reflect reality.
What is it?
Oops. That was the draft of the sentence before it.
The problem is that it backfires.
Yes, what’s important is modeling behavior, not an accurate world view at 3. It’s frustrating internally, but I just made sure my child could see that I was unfazed. I also modeled answering questions without being an authority, when appropriate “I think this is how it is” “I’m not sure, let’s find out together!”
It’s a long process, just keep your eye on emotional regulation and other bigger picture issues and don’t let your child drag you into the weeds of who is right and who is wrong, IMO.
My child does this too sometimes, it’s sometimes a form of testing their own power over the world and sometimes odd humour .
If it’s obviously a deliberately false statement I tend to dismiss them with some form of “Don’t be silly” or “Poppycock”. Not arguing, but dismissing something as silly can be more effective.
my kid used to deny my own personal opinions, it almost always pissed me off at first. I felt like I was giving so much and I didn’t want to give up my opinions too, simple things like me saying that I like something could provoke him to argue that I don’t. My spouse helped a lot, we made it into a family joke like he’s a little dictator, maybe he picked up on the laughing and learned that it was inappropriate behavior.
It’s fine. I wouldn’t just ignore it though. Maybe question why they think these things. ‘What makes you sure he’s not hungry? Did you ask him?’, ‘Are you sure she didn’t want to sing? I think she has a pretty voice.’
Your toddler is coughing e their desires more than denying facts. If anything, it’s an expression of imagination and should be encouraged with guidance away from just telling outright lies.
Impeach him. Twice.
Evidence shows that is an ineffective method of teaching consequences
I work in Early Childhood Education, your kids fine. They’re just playing as they explore and learn. Your husbands approach just dismisses their voice and doesn’t achieve anything constructive.
If they’re still acting like this by 5ish I might start to be a little concerned, but honestly I’d expect they’ll get bored of it in a month or two.
The tantrums are also a pretty standard response as they’re learning emotional regulation, alongside trying to be independent while learning more things at any other stage of life. Its chaotic, all you can to is be there to role models and guide them through understanding what they’re feeling and ways they can control their state.
If you really don’t want to play along, the best method is re-direction. I like to ask confusing questions, e.g. “the snow isn’t white” “Oh what colour is the snow? Is it red, I like red because I like red apples. What’s your favourite fruit?” Or you could just point to say a dog walking outside the window etc. just something to get them thinking about a different topic.
Great answer! And from someone who’s in the relevant field. Hopefully Lemmy keeps getting more varieties of people from different fields so we get people like you =) It’s the one thing I miss about Reddit.